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Topic: Vitamin C and COVID-19 - Water Soluble Ascorbic Acid? IV? Liposomal?  (Read 1002 times)

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There is a lot of confusion about vitamin C, what to use, and how to use for both prevention and treatment.

For prevention and "maintenance", it's easy.  On the concept protocol page, we recommend 3-5 grams of vitamin C daily.  This can be pure ascorbic acid taken in water (may cause loose stools or stomach discomfort in some), buffered vitamin C (for those with sensitive stomachs, especially), or liposomal vitamin C.

Liposomal vitamin C is superior for oral use.  It is also much more expensive to purchase.  The highest quality product is probably Dr. Christopher Shade's Liposomal Vitamin C (from his company, Quicksilver Scientific).  We consider most of his products "top shelf", and for very good reason!

However, you can make a fantastic product at home.  There are many tutorials out there, and it is as simple as combining the right amount lecithin with the right amount of vitamin C (ascorbic acid) and water in a simple blender.  Or, you can use a refined approach to get the best possible product, using an ultrasonic bath device (like the ones people use to clean jewelry). 

The best tutorial:  https://qualityliposomalc.com/

When supplementing, simply try to spread out the consumption throughout the day.  If you eat three meals, you can take a gram or so with each meal.  Liposomal vitamin C can be taken at any time, with or without food.

Now, for COVID-19.  Please start off by reading Dr. Mercola's great article which documents the emerging research on using vitamin C to treat COVID-19:

articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2020/03/29/andrew-saul-vitamin-c.aspx

To be clear again, the body can only absorb 1 gram per hour of any water soluble C (like pure ascorbic acid). In order to get the effects that one gets from doing high dose vitamin C therapy via IV,  a far greater blood serum level must be achieved.  It doesn't matter how much you take orally, the body can utilize one gram, and the rest simply flushes the digestive tract (which in itself has value, but not directly like with an IV treatment).  Of course, even a gram an hour can be beneficial, but it won't have the same therapeutic effects.

There is a critical point where the concentration of vitamin C changes the effect of the Vitamin C; it reverses it's oxidative properties, like flipping a switch.  There are many papers out there documenting this, so we won't repeat the information here.

The maximum IV dosage of vitamin C is usually quoted to be between 3-5 grams (they are using much less when using IV C to treat COVID-19, however), taken over a period of six hours.

For home use, there are different ways and strategies to use vitamin C for acute infections.  Here is a brief commentary I wrote about the IDEA of using Liposomal vitamin C over water soluble C (for oral use), for HIGH DOSE vitamin C therapy:

I cannot say, nor can anyone else as of yet, which method of use would be superior:  The "traditional" method of using ascorbic acid, finding your maximum dose level, and using THAT daily while you are sick... or using a more experimental approach which utilizes a liposomal formulation for oral use. It might even be a matter of personal response.

I, personally, don't tend to enjoy pure ascorbic acid in water.  Many people have a very low tolerance, which may or may not change when a person gets ill.

In the "general concept" post, we link to a scientific study that tries to make the case for taking 4 grams of Lip C in an hour to achieve high blood serum levels via the oral route, making IV administration unnecessary.  Don't forget to read up on that thread!

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To be clear, all historic and traditional ORAL use of vitamin C used for acute illness was done with water soluble ascorbic acid.  Not buffered, not ester C, not "natural" vitamin C, but plain old pure ascorbic acid powder mixed in water.  Is there a case for using these other formulations for general health?  Absolutely.  Would I do that in this situation?  Absolutely not.

That said, with ascorbic acid, you can never even come close to the vitamin C blood serum levels like you can with an IV... no matter how much vitamin c you take every 15 minutes, the body can only absorb 1 gram per hour. The rest simply helps the body flush the system/digestive tract (which is useful, but not the point).

The traditional way to do use vitamin C orally is to take a certain amount of vitamin C every hour (or every 15 minutes, whatever)... like between 5 and 10 grams total per hour (10 is ideal). You keep track. You keep dosing until you get loose stools. You see how much C you have taken. Then, you stop for the day.

There are troves of tutorials out there that document this process step by step.  It is actually often referred to as a "Vitamin C Challenge Test", because the idea is to figure out exactly how much vitamin C that the body will tolerate, and then dose with that amount each day during an acute phase of illness.

What happens is that you finally reach a dosage point where you can loose, watery stools.  You stop there.  Then, the next day, you take 1 gram LESS, so that you do not get loose stools.

For an ill person, that might be 30, 40, even 50 grams a day.  So, what you are doing, is establishing your maximum daily dose... For COVID-19, you only do this if you start to get ill.  The amount of C that the body can tolerate when one is well is VERY different to what it can tolerate when one is actually sick!

Now, It will most certainly HELP if one is using this time-honored method of vitamin C therapy!  This was first popularized decades ago, mainly by the Linus Pauling Institute.

...but you still will NOT even get close enough vitamin C in the blood stream, as you can with an IV treatment.

As mentioned before, In the general concept protocol post @ the EarthCures forum, I post a link to a scientific study that makes the case that with LIPOSOMAL vitamin C, one may be able to take four grams an hour and absorb it ( 2 grams every thirty minutes, perhaps even 1 gram every 15 minutes). This would mean you could  easily reach elevated blood serum levels of vitamin C.

Trying to reach maximum blood serum levels with liposomal vitamin C should be considered experimental. And, if you don't make it yourself, it can also get VERY expensive!

We now believe that using the liposomal form of vitamin C is superior (this document has been updated).  However, for those curious about the experimental treatment methods, we'll keep them here, as they have value to someone.  And, there may still be value to choosing one of these methods if one needs to save money by using less liposomal vitamin C, and more water soluble ascorbic acid.

Of course, I'm sure that there will be those who want to keep using ONLY water soluble vitamin C, because they know it well and trust it.  It's fine to just stick with the time-honored tradition of max dosing with ascorbic acid!

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The first experimental method is to dose with ascorbic acid just like all of the traditions teach...to tolerance. Once you establish tolerance for a day or so, you then begin to STACK liposomal C on top of that maximum dose of ascorbic acid (at the 30 minute mark, ideally). Thus, you see if you can get maximum tolerance of water soluble C, plus a higher blood serum level of C.  No matter what, the rule is always the same:  Dose to maximum tolerance.  If you get loose stools, reduce amount taken.

The second experimental way is opposite: to first max out on taking 4 grams of liposomal vitamin c per hour for 4 hours. THEN, you can develop a timing strategy to dose ascorbic acid on top of the liposomal, essentially doing the same experimental therapy, but flipped.

This is all that can be said, because to say anything else would just be an opinion, or one person's personal experience.  It may be that a person can't tolerate any liposomal vitamin C when maxed out on ascorbic acid, who knows?

I personally will be using liposomal vitamin C, with a maximum dose of 4 grams per hour (2 grams every half hour) for 4 hours.... TWICE... in a 24 hour period....for a total possible dose of 32 grams in a day. One of the main reason is that my body doesn't like pure ascorbic acid in any form, and I don't like buffering it if avoidable. 

And THAT is probably overkill!  (see the information Dr. Mercola published below for more details).

My body LOVES and gravitates toward liposomal vitamin C.

Remember, breast milk is liposomal!

Are there unknowns associated with COVID-19, and high doses of liposomal vitamin C?  Of course!  There always are with natural and alternative medicine!

Updates posted here as available on vitamin C:

Again, please read this document, exploring vitamin C and COVID-19:

https://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2020/03/29/andrew-saul-vitamin-c.aspx?cid_source=dnl&cid_medium=email&cid_content=art1HL&cid=20200329Z1&et_cid=DM495112&et_rid=839635134

According to the research conducted by Dr. Andrew Saul, the body can actually tolerate 100 grams of liposomal vitamin C.  If true, that is great news for those who would like to use liposomal vitamin C with acute illness rather than plain ascorbic acid.

Saul also claims that you can even reach a higher blood serum level than standard IV therapy!

Generally speaking, Dr. Saul states:

"“What I suggest, and have for some 44 years of professional life, is to take enough vitamin C to be symptom free, and when you're well, that isn't very much. I knew one lady who would take 500 mg of vitamin C a day and she was just fine. [Another person] with multiple chemical sensitivity, she needed 35,000 mg a day. Any less and she wasn't fine …"

I myself suggest a general "feel good" dose of between 3-5 grams daily (also the advice of Dr. Sara Myhill).

The link below is presented in the event anyone wants to research comparing blood serum levels and other useful data, derived from using different forms of vitamin C, ie. IV, liposomal, and water soluble ascorbates.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4915787/

Don't forget to check out all of the other pages relating to COVID-19, especially the main page and the "Rumor Mill" pages!

https://www.earthcures.org/forum/index.php/topic,184.0.html
« Last Edit: April 28, 2020, 12:06:11 PM by Jason »
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Jason R. Eaton
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