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Topic: Micronized charcoal and Microbe Formulas- questions  (Read 32050 times)

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Micronized charcoal and Microbe Formulas- questions
« on: June 09, 2019, 09:46:13 PM »
What do you think about micronized charcoal, and Microbe Formulas Bioactive Carbon products?

Can micronized charcoal add anything to a detox protocol? Can it be taken with clay? What organ processes the toxins it removes?
Micronized charcoal:  https://www.mollyssupplies.com/activated-charcoal-100-pure-food-grade-nsf-approved-8-oz-micronized-powder/

Microbe Formulas Bioactive Carbon contains fulvic and humic acids in tiny-medium sizes, and purports to both detox and nourish.
See https://microbeformulas.com/blogs/microbe-formulas/10-reasons-why-you-need-bioactive-carbon
Products:
https://microbeformulas.com/products/microbe-formulas%E2%84%A2-bioactive-carbon-plus-systemic-biotoxin
https://microbeformulas.com/collections/all-products/products/bioactive-carbon-foundation
https://microbeformulas.com/collections/all-products/products/bioactive-carbon-metchem
This seems fairly unique. What do you think of it?  Have you tried anything like this?



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Re: Micronized charcoal and Microbe Formulas- questions
« Reply #1 on: June 09, 2019, 10:12:46 PM »
Great topic!

Yes, there is great promise with nano sized carbon molecules for detoxification.

However, you need to know a LOT about those particles in order to ensure safety and effectiveness.

Tubular carbon particles in the "nano" size are extremely toxic.

So, you first need to know the average and mean particle sizing, and then you need to know about the shape of the particles.

For the charcoal, if it is a poor quality source, the micronized version will be dozens of times worse.  In this case, the NSF standard is probably a good thing, because to comply with NSF, you have to batch test for certain heavy metals.

An example of great type of carbon detox agent:  C-60.  C-60 is round and is believed to be completely non-toxic.

Also, "NFS" standard products are almost always purified.  I say "almost" because if I say "all", tomorrow I'll find one that isn't!

Some NSF products can only comply with certain standards because the product is chemically washed with a type of bleaching agent.

While safe, that doesn't mean it's the best product, and it certainly loses it's standing as "natural".

We use an NSF sodium bentonite, but we only use one that is purified by water washing.  We don't use the chemically washed grade.

If the formulators of the products can be trusted as far as quality goes,  these products are probably good.

Please keep in mind... while they kind of badmouth clay ("older" clay products), "binding" is the least of clay's healing qualities, although it is the attribute that is most known/sought after.

I haven't found any carbon/rock/soil product that even comes close to what clay can do, so I always see products like this as additions, rather than replacements!
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Jason R. Eaton
Author of Upon a Clay Tablet
Founder of Eytons Earth
Current Project:
 Eytons' Earth Foundation: Nutrition & Detox Study Program[/u


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Re: Micronized charcoal and Microbe Formulas- questions
« Reply #2 on: July 04, 2019, 10:24:03 AM »
In the referenced article the Microbe Products bioactive carbon humic/fulvic product is referenced as being healing to the body as well as entrapping toxins. Another of their pages about Metchem (their bioactive carbon heavy metal detox) says: "promotes healing with BioActive Carbons in areas where chelation has taken place." Finally, in a phone conversation one of their reps agreed with me when I asked in the product counteracted the inflammation that detoxing creates.

Personally I just found out that I have... arsenic poisoning!  I haven't yet identified what is causing it.

I need to detox metals asap, but I am in an inflammation storm. I seem to already be detoxing too much. My very smart and proven naturopath said (pre-arsenic) that the amount of binders I am taking was causing too many toxins to mobilize and that I needed to scale down. Also I am still ingesting whatever caused it.
I am taking 9 daily doses of binders: cholestyramine (4), 4 teaspoons clay (2), and 6 tablespoons zeolite (3).   (I can only tolerate 1/16 tsp or less of micronized zeolite daily which I take 2x along with the clay).)
I have ordered the Bioactive Carbon products to try them out.

Aside from them, do you have any advice as to how to proceed? I'm pretty desperate.

Of your heavy metals protocol, I couldn't tolerate the cilantro, additional minerals or moderate doses of raw garlic.  I might try a little garlic- it is a little toxic so I am wary of my ability to process it. I am using the lemon juice and drinking quite a lot of (tap) water. I make sure my bowels are moving. My digestive capacity is small and I get ill from eating regularly, but I am very deficient and also get ill from not eating, even juice fasting. I don't know which way to turn.

Thank you for your great help.


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Re: Micronized charcoal and Microbe Formulas- questions
« Reply #3 on: July 04, 2019, 10:45:36 AM »
Greetings,

At this point, I wouldn't get caught up in identifying the exact toxin (unless you are being poisoned with rat poison, pesticides, etc.)...

...what you are experiencing is called "retention toxicity".  This is where the liver, kidneys, and/or colon loses its ability to keep up with elimination.  The result is a higher level of toxins in the bloodstream.

This causes a cascading effect.  The body starts to down-regulate the genes responsible for Phase 1-2 detoxification, it an effort to try to protect the organs.

When you eat cilantro and garlic, these have phytochemicals that up-regulate these detox genes, which is why people erroneously think that these things are "toxic".

The low tolerance to micronized zeolite indicates that kidney toxicity is present.

The first thing to do is to make certain the retention toxicity is not related to bile... this is a liver/colon issue.

Exactly because of what is happening with you, we recommend individuals first restore function to the digestive system.

Micronized zeolite is NOT something I recommend in cases of retention toxicity, unless a person can slowly increase the amount taken over a period of time.

The amount of zeolite that you can tolerate is not likely enough to help the body enough to recover.

Traditional use edible clays have almost no direct affect on the kidneys because of the particle size.  The amount that you are taking seems sufficient.

How is your water consumption?

You need to be having at least one bowel movement daily.

You can cut down the binders if they aren't actually making you feel better.   Some people need a lot of clay due to digestive system issues, taking a ton of clay won't increase the body's detox-ability.

It's the retention toxicity that really needs to be addressed.  If you've done a full digestive system cleanse/restoration protocol (purged all of the mucoid plaque and repaired the gut lining), then you need to find a way to get the kidneys working properly.

Here is an overview of the issues, maybe it will put things in perspective and give you ideas on how to proceed:

http://www.eytonsearth.org/earthcures/detoxification-a-new-perspective-on-detox-protocols/

BTW:  Most of the binders you are taking contain arsenic.  In order to get a proper understanding of your heavy metal load, you have to stop taking binders for 3 days, and then do a urine heavy metal challenge test... which you might not be able to tolerate due to the chelation agent.

Hopefully, you might be able to tolerate the the carbon-based detox products.

You need, if at all possible, to get the body to accept larger amounts of micronized zeolite.  In my experience, it takes about 2-3 tbs daily, for sometimes a few years, to help reverse kidney disease/damage; I only have a few actual case histories, so this is not hard science.

If the carbon DOES help reduce problems caused by chelation, then you might be able to find a way to increase the minerals/herbs that will stimulate system-wide detox.
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Jason R. Eaton
Author of Upon a Clay Tablet
Founder of Eytons Earth
Current Project:
 Eytons' Earth Foundation: Nutrition & Detox Study Program[/u


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Re: Micronized charcoal and Microbe Formulas- questions
« Reply #4 on: July 04, 2019, 11:16:04 AM »
..also, I did want to say that unfortunately, I don't have as much knowledge/experience with healing kidneys as I do with the digestive system/liver/bloodstream.

I'm not sure if you could tolerate the "regular" natural substances that are good for the kidneys, such as parsley and especially celery.

Some people have gotten results stimulating organ function by using clay poultices over the organ.  This can be a very powerful therapy.

Here's a quote by Dr. Shade:

"Dr. Christopher Shade: So when we do our testing, thereís one part, the urine-to-blood ratio, where you see if the transport system in the kidneys that moves mercury from the blood to the urine is working. And when itís not working, youíll see a lot of mercury in the blood and very little amount in the urine. Well, those are the hardest people to detox because every time you move stuff around, itís not getting out well, and they become very symptomatic. But those transporters are also needed for DMPS and DMSA conjugates, so there, you give them a bunch of DMPS, they actually donít put a whole lot into the urine, so you donít think theyíre high, but you start redistributing it through the body and making them extremely symptomatic. I canít tell you how many people Iíve seen that have crashed and burned after a challenge test."

Here is an interview with Shade that might be revealing:

https://chriskresser.com/dr-chris-shade-on-mercury-toxicity/

Dr. Shade is light years ahead of understanding the bio-chemistry involved, he talks a lot about supporting kidney function, but I'm not sure what it is their doctors do.
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Jason R. Eaton
Author of Upon a Clay Tablet
Founder of Eytons Earth
Current Project:
 Eytons' Earth Foundation: Nutrition & Detox Study Program[/u


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arsenic detox and clay poultices
« Reply #5 on: July 11, 2019, 08:29:43 AM »
I definitely have what you would call retention toxicity. I have mold illness and what recently has been revealed to be apparent long term, late stage arsenic poisoning. My kidneys and liver have been ailing for a long time. At this point I am not sure what is causing the arsenic poisoning, and wonder if that could be due to normal arsenic exposure and long term severe mold illness (which prevents normal detox).

About what I am doing and my day: I drink at least a gallon of water daily and my bowels are moving due to high dose magnesium.  My day plays out that I fast the first 11-13 hours, instead doing a coffee enema, various treatments, and supplements and water on an empty stomach, my homemade version of what Shade would call a "Push-Catch" which includes some juice,  a few hours of binders from which I feel pretty ill, an ionic footbath, and only then can I eat 2 meals 2 hours apart. Then I do another treatment while almost nodding off, then to bed at about hour 24 to sleep for 12 hours. I can't do all that in less time than 24 hours.

I say all that because I am going to ask how to use the liver and kidney packs effectively.

I was pleasantly surprised at the kidney pack 3 days ago. Upon waking, before a coffee enema, I applied about 1/3-1/2" of green clay to each kidney and sealed with plastic wrap. Then I went about the next few hours as normal, the took a shower. I was subsequently ill all day with chills and excess fatigue and a near stupor. After eating dinner that day I felt great and ate with unusual relish- my body said "Yes,"   effectively. However, the next days was also an awful detox and yesterday was a bad but not awful detox. I am afraid to even try a liver pack. Obviously the kidney pack was too much for me. I am trying to figure out how and when to do a kidney or liver pack, which I obviously need, without completely abdicating doing anything else.  I live alone and I need to be able to function at least marginally.

One issue is timing. Doing the pack first thing before and during the coffee enema and after is convenient and the timing works well for me to take a shower. Is there a reason to do it a different time of day?  If so, I would either not be able to shower in the morning, take 2 showers that day which is undesirable, or wash the caly off manually without bathing. Also doing it anywhere near eating seems like a bad idea. Near bedtime is always within a few hours of eating.
Second would be to do a pack a shorter amount of time or to use less clay.
Third would be do do them more infrequently. I think I need them a lot so I don't like that Idea.
Finally, one could do either a portion of the liver or only one kidney at a time.
Do you have any advice for me about timing and method?


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detoxing recommendations
« Reply #6 on: July 11, 2019, 08:41:56 AM »
About http://www.eytonsearth.org/earthcures/detoxification-a-new-perspective-on-detox-protocols/
and me.
I am on a mostly raw food blended diet, and take plenty of digestive enzymes, which I really need.
For lymphatic detox, I do 4 minutes of trampoline jumping per day to help lymphatic circulation, and that is all I can tolerate at this time. 
I know the mold illness is causing circulatory and lymphatic impairment, and a recent reduction in mold in my home is causing toxins to be excreted, which might be part of the problem with my precipitating any further detox.
For skin detox, I shower every day. I haven't been able to tolerate a sauna for 5 years, although I haven't tried one for a long time. I did throw out my (moldy) sauna, anyway. I am sweating excessively at night, so hopefully the morning shower accomplishes more than a typical one.
For colon and digestive tract, I have done extensive work already. The small intestines have degraded since then but the colon is doing well I am pretty sure. I make sure the bowels are moving, typically they a few times a day towards end of my day.


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Re: Micronized charcoal and Microbe Formulas- questions
« Reply #7 on: July 11, 2019, 09:03:05 AM »
About "BTW:  Most of the binders you are taking contain arsenic.  In order to get a proper understanding of your heavy metal load, you have to stop taking binders for 3 days, and then do a urine heavy metal challenge test... which you might not be able to tolerate due to the chelation agent."
My arsenic test was a Doctor's Data hair metals test of the closest inch or so of hair to my head, so I believe that shows long term exposure.


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Re: Micronized charcoal and Microbe Formulas- questions
« Reply #8 on: July 11, 2019, 10:55:51 AM »
You have a very impressive handle on things which shows how long you've been dedicated to solving these issues.

Arsenic:  YES.  The mold toxicity could be the cause of the retention toxicity.  Once any organ starts to be affected, the body can down regulate detox, which will cause toxin retention.  It could very easily be normal exposure to arsenic (via something as simple as rice) that has been building up in-tissue for  a long time.

Retention toxicity is tricky.  It can literally be ONE metal or toxin that the kidney stops filtering.  The most common thing, of course, is mercury.

I'm sure you've already considered this and covered this:

Usually, when people have depleted systems/low functioning metabolisms, very well cooked food works better.  I would even say soups and stews.  Very few can well tolerate the coolness of raw vegetables.  If the body CAN process them well, then that is ideal.

A doctor that invented the ozone food sterilization equipment I used to use invented it because... he wanted his patients on a diet rich in raw vegetation.  But, it was making his patients sicker.  Upon doing blood studies, he realized that an imbalance in the microbiome resulted in a vastly increased burden of micro organisms that were not healthy.  This was CAUSED by the raw food and weak digestion.

He felt strongly that these patients needed to be doing raw vegetation, but he also knew that making them sicker was not the answer.  He therefore started having them ozonate, under water and with  a bubbler/diffuser, all food (no dairy, doesn't work) just prior to food preparation/eating.

This worked for every last patient with this particular problem.

Have you done the simple blood pressure arm cuff adrenal function test?  It's pretty easy to do, and in my opinion, as accurate (even more so) than any other diagnostic method.  Sometimes, adrenals will be working well in the morning, but start failing in the afternoon (for example).

Timing on clay packs must be 100% individualized.  Some people can only tolerate them, say, once weekly.  The idea is to build up tolerance.

Imagine going into a full vat of clay gel made from about 2 tons of dry clay.  An hour or two here will sometimes knock a person out for one to three days, enducing a deep healing sleep.

I don't like the way some teach using clay compresses/poultices.  They are too wimpy.  They underestimate the power of clay, and mis-judge what it means when a person has a deep fatigue reaction.  IF the body cannot well tolerate clay placed on the body, then it is not likely to be able to find any other way to heal.  This is my belief, but I do not have any real data to support it.

Clay works WITH the body, rather than just ON the body; you've experienced this first hand!

So, you have to give the body the time it needs to recover, and then resume, unless you can have someone take care of life's responsibilities and you just sit in a vat of clay, eat, drink water, and sleep.  I've never had such a luxury! ;)

I do know people who have ONLY been able to do clay baths...for six, eight hours a day, because they were quite literally too sick to do anything else (so why not be in a clay bath).  Even going to visit a doctor would be an impossibility.  This has worked... but, you can force the body into shock, so it is always an artful dance until the body finally adjusts to regular clay use.

Most people do not understand what fatigue from a cellular level is like, it's not their fault!  If your ND/MD understands it, you're way ahead of the game.

I would guess that your liver is pretty good since you can tolerate edible clay well.  If your diet is clean (able to digest every last morsel), using clay internally WILL regenerate the liver and restore function, and fix free O2 in the blood stream.  Dextreit swore by this, and it has been my experience as well.  Of course, add lemon/citrus/ACV to this and it is all wonderful for the blood/liver/digestion.... if tolerable.

Finally, we have a water soluble "metabolic wash" to knock back yeast/fungal counts in the active metabolism.  Even parts and pieces of the protocol can do wonders if there is a co-issue going on.

The baking soda portion of the flush can turn things around on day 1, or by day 3/4.... IF that is a central cause to metabolic distress.

How you know it is needed/working is that you start to feel better by hour 1, 2, 3.  A light bulb turns on, the body lets you know there is no question that this is a good thing.

Finally, yes, please, clay away from food when any type of exhaustion is present!
------------
Change to survive.  Adapt to thrive.
Jason R. Eaton
Author of Upon a Clay Tablet
Founder of Eytons Earth
Current Project:
 Eytons' Earth Foundation: Nutrition & Detox Study Program[/u


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Re: Micronized charcoal and Microbe Formulas- questions
« Reply #9 on: July 11, 2019, 11:00:17 AM »
Oh - last thing to add.

Sometimes, I am absolutely amazed at how a simple solution can make such a dramatic difference.  These problems get VERY, VERY complicated, but sometimes, there is a very basic, simple solution that turns things around.  The trick is finding it, and learning how to adapt the body to it.

I really like earthcures.org's primary "mottos"...  Change to survive, adapt to thrive... and...  Where good science meets wise traditions.

I firmly believe that there is always a solution out there.

I mentioned adrenal testing because things just are not going to work if adrenals are "down".  The cure that should/will work, won't, as long as adrenals are in a "time out".

This is frustrating, but it is a clue people often miss as they discard "cures" that don't work.

Coaxing the adrenals back online can take time.  In fact, one of the best ways to help the adrenals is very deep meditation.  Getting into very deep meditation also takes time to develop the skill/changes in brain function!
------------
Change to survive.  Adapt to thrive.
Jason R. Eaton
Author of Upon a Clay Tablet
Founder of Eytons Earth
Current Project:
 Eytons' Earth Foundation: Nutrition & Detox Study Program[/u


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Re: Micronized charcoal and Microbe Formulas- questions
« Reply #10 on: July 17, 2019, 11:51:03 AM »
About raw foods: I used to work for Ann Wigmore. The key for very sick people and raw foods is blending. She liked fermented rejuvelac blends in her old age, which I no longer tolerate due to the mold of the ferment. Also, for the last year I have been using a splash of peroxide and a drop of Dr. Bronners soap in my vegetable wash water. Now I feel less paranoid after your report about the ozonated produce. : )

About adrenals: I had the privilege of working with the great Dr. Poesnecker before he died. I am still on the adrenal protocol he put me on.

Where are these spas with clay detox pools? Sounds amazing.

I have been doing the clay packs with a clump of wet but stiff clay with plastic wrap over it. I can walk around and do stuff without making a mess, and it keeps drawing. I notice that you use a cloth instead and make the clay wetter and let it dry. Is there any reason why you recommend that instead?

My liver is quite bad, but I spend most of my day doing treatments for it directly or indirectly. So it is propped up, but creaking and complaining. The kidneys scare me because they seem harder to work with.

Where is the water soluble "metabolic wash" you mentioned? I take 1/4 tsp baking soda 3x per day. I tend to the acidic due to my liver probably.

My brain is a wreck- I once measured to have sleeping brain waves during waking time. I can't concentrate at all most of the time or barely read. Meditating is not much of a go.

What do you think of  http://www.karmic-health.com/detoxing/   ?  I feel like I am getting painted into a corner, here.
I've tried homeopathic arsenic which works to release arsenic, but a little too well- I can't excrete it once it is released so it floats around doing more harm. And that was some time ago, now I am a lot worse.



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Re: Micronized charcoal and Microbe Formulas- questions
« Reply #11 on: July 17, 2019, 01:23:32 PM »
Hi -

Such clay baths no longer exist, as far as I know.  My partner, Cano Graham, used to run the Crystal Cross Clay Healing Center at a little hot springs location many years ago.

Blending will make digestion of raw foods better, but it won't lower the bacterial counts.  The act of blending actually causes an increase in aerobic bacterial growth.  This isn't a problem for people who aren't having a bacterial issue in the body, but it can be a huge issue for those who do, so much so that I always suggest that while a person is in this state of health, that they cook their foods very much.  This has always worked well, but it is of course not the only way.

You can use plastic wrap, but it cuts down the activity of the clay.  I recommend people use plastic only if they have to have clay on for an extensive period of time, like over night, so that the clay doesn't completely dry on the body.  Clay needs to be able to breath in order to function optimally.  The difference might not be that great, who knows, but here I do stick with tradition.  When I do use plastic, I recommend placing the clay directly on the body, putting a thick cloth dressing over the clay, and then applying the plastic.  This helps stop clay from absorbing the plastic, and it gives the clay some room to breath.

Clay is most active when all of the charge layers are full/hydrated; when each two clay particles are sufficiently active with water between them (making like a sandwich)...  the total energy field of the clay gel increases with each hydrated particle of clay.  That said, as long as the clay is wet, it will work.  As Raymond Dextreit taught, the most active clay is clay that barely holds together...but does hold together.  There is a trade off:  Fully hydrated clay can be difficult to work with compared to clay that has more consistency.

Using my "long method" of clay hydration via layering...with mastered water...  you can get fully hydrated clay gel that I call a "resting/heavy clay".  This is how clay is made in nature, and the benefit as far as our green desert clay goes:  It is STICKY.  Other ways of making/mixing clay render clay fully aerated and slippery.  Nothing wrong with it!  As Dexreit mentioned, never clarifying, clay made by adding water to clay is quite different from clay made by adding clay to water!

But-- please-- when you are not feeling well and you don't have energy, just mix the clay whatever way works best for you.  These nuances are just that:  Nuances.  Don't sweat the small stuff. 

Make clay wet and put on body.  Simple!

I really can't comment further without knowing if the adrenals are actually working.  I've known people on "adrenal protocols" for five, seven, even ten years, whose adrenals were still non-functional, due to issues like pain/stress feedback loops, bromide toxicity, iodine deficiency, who knows...  it happens due to excessive acidity (acid waste made by I assume pathogenic organisms) with Lyme sufferers.  I'm sure it can happen with mold as well.

The adrenal test is very simple to do once you have an upper arm cuff blood pressure monitoring device.  Hopefully, yours are online and working!

The water soluble, basic cleanse is located at the link below.  Please note that everything on this site is comprised of concept pieces.  They are designed to show principles at work, and give examples of how certain things can be done safely...

https://www.earthcures.org/anti-fungal-protocol.php

The idea behind knocking down population counts with only water soluble minerals is that they should be well tolerated by people with impaired livers/digestion, etc.  It MIGHT help the body to cleanse enough so that it can tolerate more aggressive therapies.

The liver, every time I've ever seen, can be completely healed using clay and lemon.  Even late stage scarring.  The body can slowly be adapted to the change of using lemon as a primary source of electrolyte hydration (in water), and the acids work well to cleanse and regenerate the liver without down-regulating the detox genes (unlike things like milk thistle).  Coaxing the body to tolerate lemon can be quite a feat for some.  However, the same can be said for other healing foods, as well!

Sometimes, you can learn more about what is going on by therapy failures.  Every body response is a valuable communication.

In the toughest cases, change is always needed for survival, followed very closely by adaptation.  Once you start to get the body vested in adaptation, it becomes better and better at it.

Regarding the link, have no idea if their products are good...  for me, as long as the air and soil/earth is filled with industrial toxins, detox will always be a daily thing for me.

Regarding meditation:   Few people even know what it actually is, because it is always taught using either strange language, or taught as a strict discipline.

People who are ill should not learn to meditate using a passive method.  The brain is too tortured to entrain.  The brain is already concentrating, it is concentrating on chaos, which will always grab its attention over anything subtle.

Instead, an ill person should consider an active, vibrational, heart based meditative exercises that don't require any mental stamina at all.  Finding some way to break free of the perpetual stress/depletion/fatigue feedback loop may be the only way for some people to heal.

When the brain cannot function, the heart can step in.  I guess few people know this, but the heart sends like 3X the amount of signals to the brain, then the brain does to the heart.

You know they say love conquers all, and love IS ever present.  As humans, we just have to find a way to open up to it.

If you are interested in testing something out for fun, send me an email about it.  I'll introduce you to a specific advanced method, and you can decide if it resonates.  I'm not at the point where I would recommend such things publicly, although I am getting closer to finishing a project I started when I was around nineteen years old. :)

------------
Change to survive.  Adapt to thrive.
Jason R. Eaton
Author of Upon a Clay Tablet
Founder of Eytons Earth
Current Project:
 Eytons' Earth Foundation: Nutrition & Detox Study Program[/u